A Crucial Ethical Dilemma

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  Cobb

  November 23, 3393, 7:43 pm

  Wal-Mart is brilliant. They are the only retailer that actually prices merchandise through a judicious application of technology that actually measures supply, demand and the cost of overhead, down to the brand & sku. Walmart has mastered the economics of retailing to the extent that they can PROVE which merchandise in what volumes will sell from their stores - so much so that they have reduced the marketing of consumer goods to the fact of whether it is in Walmart or not. They could have done all of this and raised prices, lowered volumes and thereby increased profits, instead they lowered prices and raised volumes and increased profits. By doing so, Walmart has taken the bourgie consumerism out of getting consumer goods. In a society where the rich get richer and the poor stay poor, it takes all of the social pressure out of something that should have none - buying staples. Walmart has delivered on the promise of plainwrap, with brands.
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  Cobb

  November 23, 3395, 7:43 pm

  Wal-Mart is brilliant. They are the only retailer that actually prices merchandise through a judicious application of technology that actually measures supply, demand and the cost of overhead, down to the brand & sku. Walmart has mastered the economics of retailing to the extent that they can PROVE which merchandise in what volumes will sell from their stores - so much so that they have reduced the marketing of consumer goods to the fact of whether it is in Walmart or not. They could have done all of this and raised prices, lowered volumes and thereby increased profits, instead they lowered prices and raised volumes and increased profits. By doing so, Walmart has taken the bourgie consumerism out of getting consumer goods. In a society where the rich get richer and the poor stay poor, it takes all of the social pressure out of something that should have none - buying staples. Walmart has delivered on the promise of plainwrap, with brands.
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  Stephanie

  November 23, 3394, 7:43 pm

  I work in the city and live in the suburbs, and am a once a week Wal-Mart shopper. Much gets made of the presence of so-called big-box retailers who move into communities and squeeze out the mom and pops. While I have the best of both worlds, in that I can patronize the mom's and pop's and specialty shops in the city for unique things, you simply cannot beat a place like Wal-Mart for value. Besides, what some people deem mom and pop stores, are really bodegas and liquor stores. If given a choice, you're not going to patronize these places for staples like milk and diapers, because the prices are simply too high. Anyone that has a kid and lives on a budget can tell you that the $2 saved on a jumbo pack of diapers does make a difference to the individual bottom line. Even before Wal-Mart showed up in my community, grocery stores had started selling things other than food, and drug stores had started selling things other than pills and health and beauty aids. So despite all of the evils that Wal-Mart perpetrates on its employees, they are ultimately a symptom of the problem, and not the problem itself. Do I wish that their workers could unionize? Absolutely. But I also wish for socialized medicine and the death penalty to be abolished.
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  Stephanie

  November 23, 3396, 7:43 pm

  I work in the city and live in the suburbs, and am a once a week Wal-Mart shopper. Much gets made of the presence of so-called big-box retailers who move into communities and squeeze out the mom and pops. While I have the best of both worlds, in that I can patronize the mom's and pop's and specialty shops in the city for unique things, you simply cannot beat a place like Wal-Mart for value. Besides, what some people deem mom and pop stores, are really bodegas and liquor stores. If given a choice, you're not going to patronize these places for staples like milk and diapers, because the prices are simply too high. Anyone that has a kid and lives on a budget can tell you that the $2 saved on a jumbo pack of diapers does make a difference to the individual bottom line. Even before Wal-Mart showed up in my community, grocery stores had started selling things other than food, and drug stores had started selling things other than pills and health and beauty aids. So despite all of the evils that Wal-Mart perpetrates on its employees, they are ultimately a symptom of the problem, and not the problem itself. Do I wish that their workers could unionize? Absolutely. But I also wish for socialized medicine and the death penalty to be abolished.
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  Mr Carter

  November 23, 3397, 7:43 pm

  Wal-Mart has not only made itself a staple in American consumerism with its business acuity, but in pop culture as well. In many parts of the South, Wal-Mart is strategically placed as the closest thing to a shopping mall within a 32 mile radius, thereby making itself a hub of social interaction as well. Can't hate on the smiley face.
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  Mr Carter

  November 23, 3398, 7:43 pm

  Wal-Mart has not only made itself a staple in American consumerism with its business acuity, but in pop culture as well. In many parts of the South, Wal-Mart is strategically placed as the closest thing to a shopping mall within a 32 mile radius, thereby making itself a hub of social interaction as well. Can't hate on the smiley face.
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  Kirk

  November 23, 3399, 7:43 pm

  But, speaking from experience, there is a legitimate criticism of Wal-Mart on the supply side of the equation. Wal-Mart has a history of dodgy, strong-arm type tactics with suppliers in the name of keeping prices low. It's not that Wal-Mart has reduced costs and/or profits, but rather they've shifted the allocation of those profits to be more in their favor at the expense of their suppliers. While there's nothing inherently wrong with this, it does at least call into question the notion that Wal-Mart has found the perfect business model, where everyone goes home happy. Besides, I don't avoid Wal-Mart out of some ethical or economic principle. I avoid Wal-Mart because I'm (rightfully) afraid that some inbred, hillbilly Dirt-Baby is gonna bite me and give me rabies.
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  Kirk

  November 23, 3400, 7:43 pm

  But, speaking from experience, there is a legitimate criticism of Wal-Mart on the supply side of the equation. Wal-Mart has a history of dodgy, strong-arm type tactics with suppliers in the name of keeping prices low. It's not that Wal-Mart has reduced costs and/or profits, but rather they've shifted the allocation of those profits to be more in their favor at the expense of their suppliers. While there's nothing inherently wrong with this, it does at least call into question the notion that Wal-Mart has found the perfect business model, where everyone goes home happy. Besides, I don't avoid Wal-Mart out of some ethical or economic principle. I avoid Wal-Mart because I'm (rightfully) afraid that some inbred, hillbilly Dirt-Baby is gonna bite me and give me rabies.
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  alove

  November 23, 3401, 7:43 pm

  Oh my gosh, Kirk, I'm mad at myself for laughing at that last comment, but I know what you mean....
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  alove

  November 23, 3402, 7:43 pm

  Oh my gosh, Kirk, I'm mad at myself for laughing at that last comment, but I know what you mean....
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  ETS

  November 23, 3403, 7:43 pm

  I'm a writer. My woman is a teacher. We need Wal-Mart. We go together like rama lama lama ka dinga da dinga dong. (two points for you if you can name the song that lyric comes from). As far as critics are concerned, I can't say Wal-Mart is right, but I refuse to be anti-Wal-Mart and go support some other company that's doing the same thing, just more discreetly.
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  ETS

  November 23, 3404, 7:43 pm

  I'm a writer. My woman is a teacher. We need Wal-Mart. We go together like rama lama lama ka dinga da dinga dong. (two points for you if you can name the song that lyric comes from). As far as critics are concerned, I can't say Wal-Mart is right, but I refuse to be anti-Wal-Mart and go support some other company that's doing the same thing, just more discreetly.
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  dewfish

  November 23, 3405, 7:43 pm

  wal mart definitely exploits the current labor laws and suppliers, but but it's not like they invented greed and corruption. every other company does the same thing, and the companies that criticize wal-mart would kill to be in their shoes. As far as how "civilized" their customers are, I find that the most ignorant, rude, and disgusting people are usually those of the supposed "upper class." There's something about having money in your pocket that makes people think their shit don't stink.
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  dewfish

  November 23, 3406, 7:43 pm

  wal mart definitely exploits the current labor laws and suppliers, but but it's not like they invented greed and corruption. every other company does the same thing, and the companies that criticize wal-mart would kill to be in their shoes. As far as how "civilized" their customers are, I find that the most ignorant, rude, and disgusting people are usually those of the supposed "upper class." There's something about having money in your pocket that makes people think their shit don't stink.
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  Kirk

  November 23, 3407, 7:43 pm

  Luckily, I don't have to wrry about that, as I have no money either. I spent it all on thoserabies shots. Got a tetanus booster for good measure. Song is Blue Moon?
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  Kirk

  November 23, 3408, 7:43 pm

  Luckily, I don't have to wrry about that, as I have no money either. I spent it all on thoserabies shots. Got a tetanus booster for good measure. Song is Blue Moon?
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  Kirk

  November 23, 3409, 7:43 pm

  On second thought, I'm really wrong about the song. Oh well. No one suggested that Wal-Mart invented greed or corruption. I don't even know that I would suggest that they are greedy or corrupt as an organization. However, when another company with a more "exclusive" or "upper class" customer base behaves in the same way, there's no stopping the bitchfest. I don't mean to apply that to any one individual, naturally. It's more of a general opinion. The only legitimate reason to like or dislike Wal-Mart is because you either like or dislike their products and service. I personally don't like anything they have to offer, therefore I don't like them. But letting your (generic use) perception of their business practices influence that opinion is pointless.
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  Kirk

  November 23, 3410, 7:43 pm

  On second thought, I'm really wrong about the song. Oh well. No one suggested that Wal-Mart invented greed or corruption. I don't even know that I would suggest that they are greedy or corrupt as an organization. However, when another company with a more "exclusive" or "upper class" customer base behaves in the same way, there's no stopping the bitchfest. I don't mean to apply that to any one individual, naturally. It's more of a general opinion. The only legitimate reason to like or dislike Wal-Mart is because you either like or dislike their products and service. I personally don't like anything they have to offer, therefore I don't like them. But letting your (generic use) perception of their business practices influence that opinion is pointless.
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  alove

  November 23, 3411, 7:43 pm

  Nor am I saying that I have enough money to scoff. All Kirk has done (albeit comically) is make an observation. And I laughed. Heartily. Hell, we'd be sitting on the floor passing invisible food on invisible plates at my place if it weren't for Wal-Mart, so trust, I ain't mad at 'em. I don't think what they're doing is commendable, but I do agree that they're just not being as stealth about their dirt as many other businesses are. Oh, and ETS, is it that one tune from "Grease"? With that whole hambone thing?
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  alove

  November 23, 3412, 7:43 pm

  Nor am I saying that I have enough money to scoff. All Kirk has done (albeit comically) is make an observation. And I laughed. Heartily. Hell, we'd be sitting on the floor passing invisible food on invisible plates at my place if it weren't for Wal-Mart, so trust, I ain't mad at 'em. I don't think what they're doing is commendable, but I do agree that they're just not being as stealth about their dirt as many other businesses are. Oh, and ETS, is it that one tune from "Grease"? With that whole hambone thing?
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  ETS

  November 23, 3413, 7:43 pm

  Yep its from Grease. It's the closing song. And Kirk, I'll give you one point, because there was a cover of Blue Moon sung in Grease the musical. Wal-Mart is responding to a need that is so much deeper than rollback smiley faces. If Wal-Mart "fixes" itself, than the government has to fix the minimum wage, give more funding to schools on all level, etc.
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  Rex

  November 23, 3414, 7:43 pm

  Well, since my sis works for Wal-Mart corporate, I'd best remain mum so they can't fire her for my statements. I remember in college one of my friends drove a brand new 280-ZX (in the early 80s). I asked him how he afforded the car. He said "Wal-Mart." "They sell cars at Wal-Mart?" I asked. Nope, he had "personally" bought stock in the company when he turned 18 with money from his grandfather (he was 21 at the time). The car was a present to himself after his last stock valuation. He must be ridin' in limos by now.
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  Rex

  November 23, 3415, 7:43 pm

  Well, since my sis works for Wal-Mart corporate, I'd best remain mum so they can't fire her for my statements. I remember in college one of my friends drove a brand new 280-ZX (in the early 80s). I asked him how he afforded the car. He said "Wal-Mart." "They sell cars at Wal-Mart?" I asked. Nope, he had "personally" bought stock in the company when he turned 18 with money from his grandfather (he was 21 at the time). The car was a present to himself after his last stock valuation. He must be ridin' in limos by now.
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  Ben

  November 23, 3416, 7:43 pm

  Fuck Wal-Mart. It's bad enough that they don't pay most of their employees jack shit. But the worst part is that taxpayers often find themselves footing the healthcare bills of Wal-Mart's full-time workers. I read a while back about a memo Wal-Mart execs circulated to store managers about how to help full-timers enroll in government healthcare programs because the company is too cheap to provide capable insurance. They exploit illegal aliens (I know, many companies do, too), lock overnight employees in the stores, fire workers who even say the word "union," manipulate the market through suppliers...the list goes on and on. They've become the largest company in the world because they don't give a shit who they step over on the way up. That doesn't sit right with me. Call me bleeding heart, but people legitimately suffer for "always low prices." So I choose to pay a little more elsewhere.
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  dParker2.0

  November 23, 3417, 7:43 pm

  I don't shop at Walmart. I used to be in retail management, and most retail establishments do have shady dealings with suppliers and with their employees, but Walmart takes it to another level: - Cheating their employees out of overtime pay by redistributing extra time worked to a future date/pay period (thereby nullifying the status of the extra time as "overtime"), or just erasing/deleting all records of overtime work altogether... - Consistently understaffing stores on purpose, and forcing/encouraging employees to work overtime hours or work through breaks without pay... - Forcing foreign factory workers to live in horrible conditions, paying them wages so low that they can't afford to live anywhere but the company provided dormitories, which usually lack basic amenities like running water, adequate toilet facilities... - Harassing employees who show interest in starting up a union, and firing employees who actively attempt to start a union at their store... - Openly discriminating against women; allowing supervisors and management to openly harass and make sexist comments about women in the workplace... - Using back door deals to force it's way into rural and suburban communities, even when a majority of the local constituents oppose the establishment of a Walmart in their community... - Encouraging their full-time employees to sign up for Medicaid because they don't get paid enough to afford the company insurance plan... - Harassing employees who lodge complaints against coworkers or supervisors; encouraging other staff members to collectively harass complaintants... - Knowingly allowing their suppliers to violate human rights laws... - Disregarding environmental regulations at their building sites... - Not being proactive about protecting their customers from theft and other crimes perpetrated on Walmart property... I could go on, but I'll stop here.
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  dParker2.0

  November 23, 3418, 7:43 pm

  I don't shop at Walmart. I used to be in retail management, and most retail establishments do have shady dealings with suppliers and with their employees, but Walmart takes it to another level: - Cheating their employees out of overtime pay by redistributing extra time worked to a future date/pay period (thereby nullifying the status of the extra time as "overtime"), or just erasing/deleting all records of overtime work altogether... - Consistently understaffing stores on purpose, and forcing/encouraging employees to work overtime hours or work through breaks without pay... - Forcing foreign factory workers to live in horrible conditions, paying them wages so low that they can't afford to live anywhere but the company provided dormitories, which usually lack basic amenities like running water, adequate toilet facilities... - Harassing employees who show interest in starting up a union, and firing employees who actively attempt to start a union at their store... - Openly discriminating against women; allowing supervisors and management to openly harass and make sexist comments about women in the workplace... - Using back door deals to force it's way into rural and suburban communities, even when a majority of the local constituents oppose the establishment of a Walmart in their community... - Encouraging their full-time employees to sign up for Medicaid because they don't get paid enough to afford the company insurance plan... - Harassing employees who lodge complaints against coworkers or supervisors; encouraging other staff members to collectively harass complaintants... - Knowingly allowing their suppliers to violate human rights laws... - Disregarding environmental regulations at their building sites... - Not being proactive about protecting their customers from theft and other crimes perpetrated on Walmart property... I could go on, but I'll stop here.
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  PWordsmith

  November 23, 3419, 7:43 pm

  Wal-Mart is the exact blueprint for all that is right and wrong with the United States. For Innovation and ability to keep costs low, It;s like the Model T all over again. For Corporate Ethics...well..see above. As for me, I live up the street from Wal-Mart...so it's almost impossible to avoid.
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  PWordsmith

  November 23, 3420, 7:43 pm

  Wal-Mart is the exact blueprint for all that is right and wrong with the United States. For Innovation and ability to keep costs low, It;s like the Model T all over again. For Corporate Ethics...well..see above. As for me, I live up the street from Wal-Mart...so it's almost impossible to avoid.
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  **RPM**

  November 23, 3421, 7:43 pm

  Can't answer this right now, off to Wal-Mart for my daily isle sweep.
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  **RPM**

  November 23, 3422, 7:43 pm

  Can't answer this right now, off to Wal-Mart for my daily isle sweep.
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  Brew City Drew

  November 23, 3423, 7:43 pm

  The name of the song is "We Go Together". Grease is my shit. Don't hate me. One.
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  Cobb

  November 23, 3424, 7:43 pm

  Kirk is dead right about Walmart squeezing suppliers, but I think it's the pendulum swinging the other way for once. I mean what is the difference between a house brand and a national brand? Why did we all pay more for Band-Aids than Curad? It was because of the sunk costs of marketing on television that gave us that stupid jingle we all still remember. "I'm stuck on Band-Aids 'cause Band-Aids stuck on me." Let us also remember that the dead opposite of Wal-Mart is Nordstrom. Take your pick. Oh yeah and remember that Sears is now run by a brotha.
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  eauhellzgnaw

  November 23, 3425, 7:43 pm

  I don't even bother arguing about Wal-Mart's economic model. They have shrewdly taken advantage of the environment provided by corporate capitalism. The most valid criticisms of Wal-Mart concern how they treat their workers. I can also see why it's a problem that the state and taxpayers shoulder the burden of providing health care and such for Wal-Mart employees. One thing that upsets me about a lot of the anti-Wal-Mart crowd, though, is that many of them, from their comfortable upper-middle class existence, condemn the poor people who are too "stupid and selfish" to boycott Wal-Mart. I don't shop there, but only cause there isn't one around me.
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  eauhellzgnaw

  November 23, 3426, 7:43 pm

  I don't even bother arguing about Wal-Mart's economic model. They have shrewdly taken advantage of the environment provided by corporate capitalism. The most valid criticisms of Wal-Mart concern how they treat their workers. I can also see why it's a problem that the state and taxpayers shoulder the burden of providing health care and such for Wal-Mart employees. One thing that upsets me about a lot of the anti-Wal-Mart crowd, though, is that many of them, from their comfortable upper-middle class existence, condemn the poor people who are too "stupid and selfish" to boycott Wal-Mart. I don't shop there, but only cause there isn't one around me.
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  Left Coast Vic

  November 23, 3427, 7:43 pm

  I have a two-pronged attack against Wal-Mart. First: Wal-Mart is the earthly manifestation of that ring in Dante's Inferno where the damned spend eternity chasing a flag. But Wal-Mart is worse though, because every department has a flag. I cant tell you how many fights I have almost been just because some stupid person didnt let me pass in the aisle or because I almost ran over they kid who was jumping all around. People lose all common sense and courtesy at that store. I gladly pay more elsewhere to not have an anyuersym (sp). Second: I think of the old saying: "Aint no such thing as a free lunch." Wal-Mart prices are so low somemtimes, that it dont seem right. What are these cats doing to get the prices so low? Other folks have hit on the key issue: Wal-Mart makes their distributors slash prices year after year. A race to the bottom so to speak. In my opinion, this practice reduces global wealth by stifling growth in the 3rd world countries that supply the goods. When folks are broke here in the States, its hard to think globally. That $2 you save by going to Wal-Mart could be better used to help rise the standard of those counties. And all that jazz about Wal-Mart having the perfect business plan ... peep how they got ran out of Germany.
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  hseuss3000

  November 23, 3428, 7:43 pm

  Sometimes you need church socks, a box of cereal and a computer desk all at the same time. Wal-Mart may be reprehensible in the way they run smaller competitors out of business and deny their employees things like breaks and full pay, but they do save me time and money. Seuss' moral compass: lowered a notch Wal-Mart: still making bank. I'll call it a moral defeat for me and a tie for both of us economically. Plus they're Sam's too and where else can I get a 12 pound bag of frozen chicken breast?
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  hseuss3000

  November 23, 3429, 7:43 pm

  Sometimes you need church socks, a box of cereal and a computer desk all at the same time. Wal-Mart may be reprehensible in the way they run smaller competitors out of business and deny their employees things like breaks and full pay, but they do save me time and money. Seuss' moral compass: lowered a notch Wal-Mart: still making bank. I'll call it a moral defeat for me and a tie for both of us economically. Plus they're Sam's too and where else can I get a 12 pound bag of frozen chicken breast?